I Make No Claims for Coherence in the Following Rant

[muccamukk]

The following may come off as bitchy and unreasonable, but it's my journal and I can post what I want. I'm not cutting it for the same reason. This is not directed at anyone on my flist in particular, and I don't mean to offend any of you (except for you over there -points and laughs-).

Some of you may have noticed that I'm getting more twitchy in relation to fandom of late. The reason for this is that I'm changing my outlooks on life, have been over the last few years, and fandom is not changing with me, and I'm suffering separation anxiety of sorts. My problem with fandom is that I'm tired of men, but I don't know how to get rid of them. Wow, that came out really '70s feminist, which is good and bad. I'm not a man-hater. I can and do relate to male characters. It's not that I want to get rid of men in fandom all together. I just want to read more about women, for a change.

I find it very frustrating that the part of fandom that I participate in is written by women and for women and about men. Yes, you can blame canon. The women on sci fi and fantasy shows tend to be less detailed, more inconsistent, and somewhat overshadowed a lot of the time. However, I've been noticing more and more that shows respond at least somewhat to fanish demands. TPTB what to give us what we want, because then we'll keep watching. I don't think that fandom wants more strong women. They don't.

Case point, Andromeda: the cast has an equal number of men and women, with a range of personalities. The women are generally as well written as the men. Basically the entire fandom concentrates on one male character. Except for a little het (which is still about that male character, really). All women are resoundingly ignored.

Case point, Ginny Weasley is a slut.

Then there's the whole issue of Mary Sues. Now I know I've rallied against them in the past (though more the sueification of canon characters), and I still don't like a lot of the bad writing that often goes with them, but the more I think about it, the more I'm in favour of them in principle. If for no other reason than it adds women to male driven canon or fanon. Shooting them down is beginning to seem more like attacking women than bad characters.

I remember reading a female fan commenting of Supernatural that she liked her shows to be a "sausage fest," and thinking, "Wow... freedom of opinion and all... but how can any woman say that?" I avoid more male populated areas of the 'Net like boards, but there seems to be this alarming patriarchal slant to even woman-dominated LJ.

I haven't talked about this a lot before because it makes me look like such a hypocrite. I mean, I look over my own sad few stories, and it's Aragorn and Denethor, Holmes and Watson, Jack and Stephen, Captain Jack Harkness, Commodore James Norrington, Bors and Lancelot, Logan's POV on Marie, and a OFC's POV on Dean and Sam. The last perhaps being the more woman-centric of the lot, and the most recent. And even if I changed that, I don't write much fiction. I'm lousy at meta. I watch shows like Hercules: TLJ and Supernatural, which are pretty much entirely about men. I'm not about to start a super awesome website like monkeycrackmary's Girl-Wonder.org (which is great to read and always makes me feel somewhat better, but isn't really about one of my fandoms). So it's not like I'm making a huge contribution to the feminist revolution here.

Put up or shut up, right?

The option of just deciding not to read things that are going to piss me off, and leaving fandom (though not LJ, of course) altogether, is beginning to seem like a good one. It seems like quitting, but I'm not sure what else to do.

It's just that keep hearing V -- of all people -- saying, "The truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country," and it won't let me be.

Posting this publicly, because it'll be fair warning for any poor shmuck who stumbles in.

Comments

[lasergirl.livejournal.com]

I feel like that, too, even though I really can't help myself. Because on one hand, I think I should write women characters more often, you know, in the 70's solidarity kind of way, but then I look at things and think that really, I'm amusing myself and myself likes to be entertained by boys.

I'm also torn. I hope you find a way through this morass.

[muccamukk]

I get the amuse yourself with attractive shiny things, and each to their own. You are certainly in no way responsible for my pissiness [totally a word, damn it!] at fandom.

One of my RL friends just told me that I either have to write what I want to see myself, or not comment. I think that's really the only thing to do.

[lasergirl.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, I didn't get the idea you were personally attacking me at all. But I do sometimes get that whole 'why don't I like any female characters?' panic, and I feel like a bad, unequal-opportunity writer, and then I realize that I just am not interested in writing those characters anyway, and I feel a little less guilty.

But still, as a woman, I feel like there should be better, more interesting female characters in the shows I watch/ship. But then I might not even like them anyway. It's tricky.

[cruisedirector.livejournal.com]

Um...okay, this is tangential and I should probably shut up because I'm the one who had mass unfriendings because I didn't and don't like Starbuck which obviously means I can't see anything in BSG beyond the cock, but...

WERE ROSLIN AND ADAMA IN BED TOGETHER AT THE END OR DID IT JUST LOOK THAT WAY??!!!

Um. Sorry. *G*

[muccamukk]

I'm not in BSG fandom AT ALL though, because my only experiences have been with when it was first starting up and the Old/New battle was so wanky and pathetic (and from what I've heard since, things haven't improved). Still my favourite characters are Roslin, Adama, the Agathons, and Starbuck, which is pretty balanced. I still like Starbuck, even if she is a total bitch. It's possible this is due more to her being gorgeous and me wanting to sleep with her.

I haven't seen it yet! We have people over tonight. I usually watch it the next day.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

I have thought this myself about this, the lack of (fem*)slash in my fandoms and the 'ew het' fen/fic too.

I'd love a cross fandom newsletter, for fic/art/media that has a female canon character as the central figure? Or something? People might just start writing it if there's a place it wont drown under the McShep sheer amount of other stuff.
Not that I'd know who or how that could be done. If anyone can suggest one that already exists or something of going about it that'd be great.


*I'm not keen on that distinction, really. Even though I understand there has to be one.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

BUGGER IT. I'm actually contemplating this. Please tell me there already is one? =(

[muccamukk]

Not that I've seen, but I've dropped out of fandom, especially SGA, because it's been pissing me off.

I'll totally join though.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

STOP ENCOURAGING ME! =O

I have a few writers/artists on my flist alone that I could get to rec or contribute I think, I should go through my fic bookmarks too. Would it be unethical to go through old LJ newsletters and get their links? I think I'd only try out a weekly thing ATM.

Now I have to think of a name.

girlcooties_newsletter
oag_newsletter (only a girl)
thegirl_newsletter (in reference to 'the girl' position on most team shows)
doublex_newsletter

I have no idea.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

I am becoming fond of girlgerms_newsletter though. =)

[muccamukk]

This would be for SGA or fandom in general. And would Het be allowed, or just fem!slash and woman-centric gen? What about OFCs?

I will help moderate, anyway, if you want (though I'm not sure how much I'll be around if I end up on another light with no Internet, and I'm gone to Africa [God willing] for six months in my fall/your spring).

I like girlgerms_newsletter.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking I'm far too involved in other shows to ignore any so cross fandom is probably best. Het, femslash, gen and OFC would be good. It would all have a female character as a focus point though.

I'm not sure how to go about deciding the boundary between gratuitous 'omg Sam or Dean get married to me' fics and genuine character creation.
It'd be a bit of a blurry line.

I'd love help, I'm thinking it'd be like sga_newsletter or spnnewsletter, just not as frequent.

[muccamukk]

SG-1, SPN, DW at least, though DW is always so very wanky I haven't ventured near of late.

Also, the boundary between het about women and het about men. The thing about all encompassing newsletters is that they don't have to make those calls and people don't get mad at them for doing so.

I married off Sam once. Though not to me, I hope -g-

The Age of Sail people have one they publish weekly. I think we would have to start fresh though, not go through old links. Because that would just be a little overwhelming.

Also: germ - noun
1. a microorganism, esp. when disease-producing; microbe.
2. a bud, offshoot, or seed.
3. the rudiment of a living organism; an embryo in its early stages.
4. the initial stage in development or evolution, as a germ cell or ancestral form.
5. something that serves as a source or initial stage for subsequent development: the germ of an idea.

[Origin: 1400–50; late ME < MF germe < L germen shoot, sprout, by dissimulation from *genmen, equiv. to gen- (see genitor, genus) + -men resultative n. suffix)]

I like that.

Are you on AIM or MSN at all?

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

Sorry that took a while, I'm cooking tea for the approaching hoards at the moment! I do have the bandwidth for IMing at the moment but I might be in and out till later.
I'm Naewinter on AIM, 'naefox76 at hotmail' on MSN, I'm on the LJ thing as 'naewinter at LJ' and gmail as 'nae.fox at gmail' as well. I have one of those multi-IM-service applications. =D

'girlgerms_newsletter' is too long but 'girlgerms_news' fits the letter constraints, I like the associations you mentioned too. =D

I've seen some very good female character fics from POTC and other fandoms so I wouldn't like to restrict it and I know people who could get links from fandoms I'm not sure of so I don't think it needs restricting to any specific fandoms but generally, the ones we're familiar with.

het about women and het about men Yup, that's the thing. I'm sure there will be a few differing opinions about that but I think we should be able to just judge for ourselves. I think it's the big fandom ones people feel left out of.

DW is so very wanky around 'ships' but the community I'm in at the moment seems to be performing immersion therapy on themselves, posting as many pervy pic spams and polls as humanly possible. Even Six has a great following and there seems to be a sense of humour around 'shipping' taking root.

Sam gets married off all the time, especially in canon! =D

[muccamukk]

Sokay. I went to bed. -g- rohan_lady and got used to the Stupid Time Difference thing ages ago.

I think girlgerms_news sounds better anyway.

A vague charter might be easier to keep up anyway, because as people come and go, you could just shift fandoms in and out.

It might be nice to have an "Old Favourites" section as well, or something. Or even just include them as you have time.

Yeah, because I started with Eight and only got into fandom with Nine, I've always been in wank central, it seems. I just gave up.

What's that line from ltlj's fic "Colorado Springs"? -looks it up-

The first question O'Neill asked was, "So, you're married?"

John didn't make the mistake of blinking. He knew which report O'Neill had gotten to. "Sort of, sir. It was a formality for an alliance."

O'Neill didn't look up from the laptop. "It happens. Major Reilly is married on three planets." He paged down the screen, adding thoughtfully, "Sometimes we try to palm Walter off on 'em." He glanced up, completely deadpan. "Any kids?"

"No, sir." John had to add, equally deadpan, "We thought we'd wait."

Teal'c smiled approvingly. O'Neill said, "Ah," like he thought it was a good idea too.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

The 'tag' system might be excellent for organising the fandoms or genres, I usually link to them from my user info in my art journals so the less used ones can be accessed. It'll probably stick to the fandoms I know a bit about at the moment.
=D

That fic sounds good, I always wondered about the other teams getting married off! =D

I only got into the fandom part with Nine too, I had no idea it was such a taboo to ship him with anyone, although I do remember massive wank over that kiss in the TVM.

[muccamukk]

I'm not sure how you mean. It seems that tagging as in the LJ tags would get a bit cumbersome for multi-topic entries. Though I was thinking of archiving things like the SGA newsletter does.

You really must go read her Retrograde and Hunting Parties series as soon as humanly possible. My absolute favourite SGA stories ever.

I used to have a "The Doctor is asexual, damnit!" person on my flist. I always found it an odd notion. I loved the kiss in TVM. Though my favourite companion thus far has to be Donna, so I'm in a fandom of one, again, I think.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

Ah, I thought they used the tagging system. Memories would work well too I think. I'll have rummage around in there to see how it works best. Thanks. =D

OOH! I have read those, I'm up to Tropic Of Cancer. I love those fics, the first broke my heart. =D

I've seen people argue that he doesn't have human like genitalia but that was a bit of an extreme example though. =D

[muccamukk]

I think they link their sections into the memories, which is a bit labour intensive, but works really well if you're trying to find something later.

Wait until you read the next two!

Aside from all the interspecies dating in the show, and the flirting, and the granddaughter, and the comment that humans can breed with just about anything, and... yeah -g-

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

hmm, it might be easy to combine both. I'll set up a posting template so the code doesn't have to be re-writen each post as well I think.

There are people (and whole official books) who have managed to come up with the most complicated reasons as to why she'd call him grandfather but I think I'll go with what's stated. They've all been made AUs by the last series though.

I think it comes from a BBC policy from around the Fifth Doctor's time, he was young enough to be seen as a romantic pairing with his companions instead of the parental age range that the previous had so they nixed anything romantic in the slightest.

[muccamukk]

I think to help out, I have to apply to join, you have to accept me, then give me co-manager status. Though if you just want me to pass on links or something, that could work too.

Ha. Well, RTD and "I was a Dad once" pretty much killed that, eh?

Right, I heard about that. I guess that directive is also dead -g-

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

It might be easier that way, I've only found a way to deny membership yet. XD

He's determined to get rid of that part! He had to have been one to be a grandfather but I loved hearing that bit!

[muccamukk]

Okay, done. I think it will be self evident after that.

I love the look on Rose's face, she's like "Dodido... wait... what?"

[muccamukk]

The "Ew girl cooties" people are a tad, odd, aren't they? I'm always like, "...And you're a what?"

I know there's character-centric communities. Like there's a Teyla community that I've seen. And I think Martha from Doctor Who has one even now. But they seem a little dead, and mostly het-orientated anyway (I like a lot of het, but so much of it seems to be geared towards making independent women dependant [see most of the Sam/Jack stuff from SG-1] There's a lot of good Janeway/Chakotay stuff about, so I may just switch into ST: VOY fandom, as frustraiting as that is at times.

It's funny how my fondness for most slash and male bonding fic as just died within the last few months. I just haven't been reading much fic at all lately.

Love the icon!

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

They are odd, I'm always surprised to see a 'Warning: Het' on otherwise adult rated porny fic.

I love it too! SJS was such a cool character. =D

[muccamukk]

She is! I'm not a classic Whovian, I'm afraid, but I just loved her with Ten and Rose.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

She's fantastic, I think you'd like the older stuff with her and Fourth in it.

I have made the community, girlgerms_news. Hope you don't mind if I use the "germ - noun" bit at least for a place holder for the user info?

I have to figure out how to add maintainers yet, if you're still interested I can add you. I don't mind if you're too busy at any point, I don't think this'll be a massive job. Africa for six months sounds exciting! =D
I'll have a ponder on the post format, more than one fandom might make it a bit tricky although I think I have a few ideas.

[muccamukk]

Dude, you've got to go to the library or something and listen to this latest BBC7 adventure. You really do.

Looks great, I like the banner.

Go a head and add me, and I'll at least pitch in when I can.

Maybe divide by fandom and colour code for het, slash, gen and OFC? Or something.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

Blood of the daleks? I have a radio copy (till the CD turns up somewhere) but haven't listened to it yet. It's loaded onto my iPod already, just waiting for a car or bus trip or some gardening that needs to be done.

I'm really not surprised that I have a banner before a real structure at all. =D

Dividing by fandom sounds good, then grouping each genre or content with a label on each link.

[muccamukk]

That one was good two, but I mean "Phobos" this weeks episode. Man.

Sounds like something I'd do, alright. Who's the left most chick?

That would work, like in brackets (Art, PG, Slash, Teyla/Sora) or something like that?

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

Weekly! I'm going to have a tonne to catch up on! Yay! \o/

She's Leela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leela_(Doctor_Who)), the Fourth Doctor's companion. She was a feral girl he found 'shipwrecked' on a planet. She's in the Gallifrey audio series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallifrey#Gallifrey_audio_series) now with Lala Ward who played Romana. They've done so much with their characters.

Brackets look good, it'll be easier to label each link with it's specific details. =D

[muccamukk]

Yeah. I think there's to be eight in total.

Oh right. I remember her. She often comes up in more recent discussions of how one really ought not to criticise how Martha dresses -g-

I've added some ideas that you might want to include to the info, but edit at your discretion of course.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

Leela was put is some amazingly bad outfits by Four, she wasn't keen on them though. Her usual outfit is part of the reason DW gets that 'a girl in a tiny dress running from monsters' perception sometimes but I think it was more likely to be Leela chasing after some hairy, fanged and terrified beastie!

We realise that this creates some grey areas, such as which half a het pairing is the story focused on, and sorting that out really is up to editorial discretion. Perfectly put! I was trying to wrack my brain to try and put that into words. =D

[muccamukk]

Ha! Well, I watch and enjoy Original Series Star Trek and Hercules: TLJ, so I really don't get to comment on costumes -g-

Thanks. Except it should read "half of a het pairing" oops. I suck at grammar.

Anything else I can do?

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

I'll edit the start a little to fit in with the rest and I'd like to put in that 'ginny is a slut' link that Mary posted for context on the 'girl cooties' or any other examples too. Or maybe it should go in a post, would it go in meta?

Other than more user info stuff, I think the list is:
Formatting the posts + tag system and collecting links, I think promotion is on it too but I'm not sure if we should wait until it gets an actual post. I have buttons and icons or if you want to make some? Oh oh, my grammar bit of my brain is switching off too!

If there is anything specific you want to do or can think of something I should do, let me know. =D

[muccamukk]

I think that linking the slut list from "Ew... Girl!Cooties!" would be good. It gives a very clear impression of what we're talking about. We should definitely have a meta section though.

I think that we could make a template that would be private, so that we both could work on coding. Only I think only on of us could edit, but at least it would give an idea.

I can do buttons and icons, but I'm happy with yours. I liked the banner.

How do you want to divide looking for links? I can do SGA, SG-1 SPN, LOTR, and some of the Star Treks or which ever of those that you want.

Speaking of therapeutic, I ran into these pretty much animie-based but definitely feminist communities while surfing for interests heroinesofslash and hated_character.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

Those communities look good.

If we have the comments to the posts screened automatically we could use that as the collecting point for the next load of links, by us or others. -Although can we both see them? Maybe collecting them into a FO post or just make a mod/organising journal so we can both edit the code, see the comments we both collect. hmmm. I can set that up if you think that's a good idea.

It'll also make duplicates harder to make, if you want to stick to certain areas or fandoms that's fine with me. We'll both find links from areas the other is covering at some point though.

I'll see if I can get the style to have tag or memory links down the side of the journal page too.

[muccamukk]

I tried putting up a test post FO. Did you see it? It was just some formatting stuff.

I like the Mod community idea (which would just be a personal journal, like GirlGerms_mods or something). We could also friend a bunch of stuff with it and use it as a watch list of sorts.

I know very little about coding, but if you could add an "Edit" button on the front page for each post so you didn't have to go into comments to get to it, that would be nice.

[naewinter.livejournal.com]

hmm, *thinking music*

If we had a 'mod journal'. We could both log into the posts made on the newsletter, edit code in an FO post, screen and see the comments made to it and post if one is away or post remotely if both are. I can email the password to you.

I'll put up a pre-dated sticky post calling for links and such. Maybe we could direct all comments and links to that post from a link to the sticky post at the bottom each newsletter post, so we aren't having to go back through posts to find new comments.

[muccamukk]

You are very clever at all this. I like that idea. Though only one of us would get e-mailed comment notifications in that case (but I guess the message centre would work there).

Sticky post is also a good idea. Though not everyone will follow it.

[jaydeyn-sitari.livejournal.com]

I friends surfed to your journal, found this rant and I agree. Completely. What about the girls? Hmm?

So now, after reading about the formation of girlgerms_news I look forward to reading! :)

:)
Jaydeyn

[muccamukk]

Gah! I know! It just boggles the mind sometimes, doesn't it?

I hope we get it up and running soon.