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muccamukkWrite a comment with "Five Words" in it, and I'll list five things I associate with you. You must then go on about them at length in your own journal.
jazzypom gave me:
Comics:
I used to be a bit of a DC girl (mostly Batman), and pretty much ignored Marvel when I wasn't reading Essential X-Men from the library or writing movie fic. I fell out of DC before I ever really got in with the whole Steph Brown thing.
I watched the movies because I like explody things, but that was about it for years. Then my yuletide recipient wanted fic about this doctor named Faiza Hussain, and how totally awesome she was in every way. At that point, there were only six issues of Captain Britain and MI:13 out, so I bought them in case I couldn't think of a Reign of Fire plot.
Then I bought the back story of a couple of the characters. Then I started buying other titles. Then I got a pull list.
I've always been very attracted to comics as medium, and the epic sci-fi stories of the superhero comics especially. I think it is an amazing and profound way of creating mythology, and I love it unashamedly. I think the colours, and the frozen motion of the art say things that words alone can't.
I also frequently hate the stories the medium tells, and the way it tells them. How much better it could be, how much better it sometimes is, makes me want to cry some days. They used this a thousand years ago to retell mythology and theology and called it stained glass. There are times, when I want to give up the whole thing because the misogyny the racism, the homophobia are so bad that I think they might be making me a worse person for reading them.
But I can't give them up for the stories, and the dreams they tell.
Steve Rogers:
Then Iron Man came out, and I went to see it with some of my nerdier friends. "He killed Captain America" said my friend, to which I replied, "Who's Captain America?" followed closely by "Sure, whatever, shut up and watch the movie." I didn't like the movie, or Tony Stark, that much.
Later, when I started reading Marvel, I fell into Cap/Iron Man almost by accident, a fic here or there, references to in other comics, people on my flist. The more I read, the more I loved Steve Rogers.
He's an easy man to love, I think, or at least an easy man to appreciate. He believes the best in people well still knowing they can be weak, and even evil. He's lost everything in the world, including the world, and he doesn't despair. He fights for a ideals, of course, but mostly he fights for people, any people, whether they want him to or not, really.
All of which makes him a very classic Dirk Squarejaw hero, a type of which I'm fond, but there's more to him than that.
Another think I love about Steve is that he's smart. He's not like Reed Richards Smart, but he's not just a grunt either. It loves books, and art, and he grew up kind of a nerd who lived in his own little world as protection from the reality of being sickly and poor with and alcoholic father and an over-worked mother. Then when he became strong and a hero, he didn't give that world up. He still loves to read, and to draw.
I think that my single greatest attraction to Steve is that he likes himself. He may angst about where he fits, and if he's doing enough, but not about who he is. Okay, there is tension between Steve as Steve and Steve as Cap sometimes, but on the whole, people want to be around Cap because he wants to be around himself. This allows him an incredible amount of range and freedom that a lot of other characters don't have. He doesn't have all this emotional energy invested in blame, and it's amazing. This doesn't mean that he's not self critical (though it does make him arrogant at times), but it means that he can run with his own strengths, that he's not blind to them.
And, of course, there's the patriotism. Pretty early into Master and Commander, Stephen Maturin says, "Patriotism is a word that generally comes to mean either 'my country, right or wrong,' which is infamous, or 'my country is always right,' which is imbecile." But Steve knows his history. He knows every horrible thing that his country has done, and he stands against it, but he still has the hope, and the faith, and the love to try and make things better. He's an Avenger, and a peace activist, too.
Also, he has a shiny, unbreakable shield which he throws at things whilst doing attractive gymnastics.
Stargate SG-1:
Oh SG-1, with your snark and your angst and your fail. -clutches shiny show-
I'm kind of surprised thatjazzypom picked this one for me, in that I don't really talk about it a lot lately, and I've written all of one drabble in it. I guess it's the icons.
I'm pretty much into this show for the teamy!love and the hot chicks with guns. It's possible that I'm shallow.
My favourite thing about it is probably Sam/Janet/Vala/Carolyn, and yeah their characterisation got a little mangled at times, and some of them died (and didn't come back to life), but they were spectacular. When that show first came on, and I was a teen, gun-toting, plant-talking, inventor Sam was about the shiniest damn thing I'd ever seen (though not quite so shiny as Susan Ivanova).
And the teamy love. Because my favourite kind of team, actually probably the only kind of team I'm willing to put up with, is one where all the members respect each other. They don't always agree, they can be mean and thoughtless at times, but they're a team because they work best together, because they fit and they want to be there.
Writing:
Is like playing with dolls for grown ups.
I'm kind of shit at it, mostly because I have no where near enough patience to properly edit things, but it makes me happy.
WIP (your current work in progress):
Oh, Heart of Steel, which I should be writing, only I'm reading back issues of Captain America (avoid volume four, except for near the end) and working on this.
Okay, so my recent voyage back into The Sentinel fandom has really reinforced for me what I like about Steve/Tony: They don't need each other. They are both heroes in their own right, with their own friends, allies and enemies. Yes, they're good friends, and they like each other, but they go for entire volumes in their own titles without seeing each other. Were one or the other to drop of the face of the earth, the survivor would be very sad, but ultimately survive (getting your other half killed being another matter).
I kind of think that they can't have a real relationship if one needs the other to survive. This is especially true of Steve, who is so self contained. So I've basically put them in a situation that cannot, as it now stands, provide a basis for a functional relationship. Then made them deal with it.
Also, I enjoy Woobie!Steve, so this is an excuse to do that a lot. I enjoy cracked alternate universes. I haven't posted a WIP since that 20,000 word The Lord of the Rings that took me three years to write, so this is fun. I'm certainly interested to see where it goes.
jazzypom gave me:Comics:
I used to be a bit of a DC girl (mostly Batman), and pretty much ignored Marvel when I wasn't reading Essential X-Men from the library or writing movie fic. I fell out of DC before I ever really got in with the whole Steph Brown thing.
I watched the movies because I like explody things, but that was about it for years. Then my yuletide recipient wanted fic about this doctor named Faiza Hussain, and how totally awesome she was in every way. At that point, there were only six issues of Captain Britain and MI:13 out, so I bought them in case I couldn't think of a Reign of Fire plot.
Then I bought the back story of a couple of the characters. Then I started buying other titles. Then I got a pull list.
I've always been very attracted to comics as medium, and the epic sci-fi stories of the superhero comics especially. I think it is an amazing and profound way of creating mythology, and I love it unashamedly. I think the colours, and the frozen motion of the art say things that words alone can't.
I also frequently hate the stories the medium tells, and the way it tells them. How much better it could be, how much better it sometimes is, makes me want to cry some days. They used this a thousand years ago to retell mythology and theology and called it stained glass. There are times, when I want to give up the whole thing because the misogyny the racism, the homophobia are so bad that I think they might be making me a worse person for reading them.
But I can't give them up for the stories, and the dreams they tell.
Steve Rogers:
Then Iron Man came out, and I went to see it with some of my nerdier friends. "He killed Captain America" said my friend, to which I replied, "Who's Captain America?" followed closely by "Sure, whatever, shut up and watch the movie." I didn't like the movie, or Tony Stark, that much.
Later, when I started reading Marvel, I fell into Cap/Iron Man almost by accident, a fic here or there, references to in other comics, people on my flist. The more I read, the more I loved Steve Rogers.
He's an easy man to love, I think, or at least an easy man to appreciate. He believes the best in people well still knowing they can be weak, and even evil. He's lost everything in the world, including the world, and he doesn't despair. He fights for a ideals, of course, but mostly he fights for people, any people, whether they want him to or not, really.
All of which makes him a very classic Dirk Squarejaw hero, a type of which I'm fond, but there's more to him than that.
Another think I love about Steve is that he's smart. He's not like Reed Richards Smart, but he's not just a grunt either. It loves books, and art, and he grew up kind of a nerd who lived in his own little world as protection from the reality of being sickly and poor with and alcoholic father and an over-worked mother. Then when he became strong and a hero, he didn't give that world up. He still loves to read, and to draw.
I think that my single greatest attraction to Steve is that he likes himself. He may angst about where he fits, and if he's doing enough, but not about who he is. Okay, there is tension between Steve as Steve and Steve as Cap sometimes, but on the whole, people want to be around Cap because he wants to be around himself. This allows him an incredible amount of range and freedom that a lot of other characters don't have. He doesn't have all this emotional energy invested in blame, and it's amazing. This doesn't mean that he's not self critical (though it does make him arrogant at times), but it means that he can run with his own strengths, that he's not blind to them.
And, of course, there's the patriotism. Pretty early into Master and Commander, Stephen Maturin says, "Patriotism is a word that generally comes to mean either 'my country, right or wrong,' which is infamous, or 'my country is always right,' which is imbecile." But Steve knows his history. He knows every horrible thing that his country has done, and he stands against it, but he still has the hope, and the faith, and the love to try and make things better. He's an Avenger, and a peace activist, too.
Also, he has a shiny, unbreakable shield which he throws at things whilst doing attractive gymnastics.
Stargate SG-1:
Oh SG-1, with your snark and your angst and your fail. -clutches shiny show-
I'm kind of surprised that
jazzypom picked this one for me, in that I don't really talk about it a lot lately, and I've written all of one drabble in it. I guess it's the icons.I'm pretty much into this show for the teamy!love and the hot chicks with guns. It's possible that I'm shallow.
My favourite thing about it is probably Sam/Janet/Vala/Carolyn, and yeah their characterisation got a little mangled at times, and some of them died (and didn't come back to life), but they were spectacular. When that show first came on, and I was a teen, gun-toting, plant-talking, inventor Sam was about the shiniest damn thing I'd ever seen (though not quite so shiny as Susan Ivanova).
And the teamy love. Because my favourite kind of team, actually probably the only kind of team I'm willing to put up with, is one where all the members respect each other. They don't always agree, they can be mean and thoughtless at times, but they're a team because they work best together, because they fit and they want to be there.
Writing:
Is like playing with dolls for grown ups.
I'm kind of shit at it, mostly because I have no where near enough patience to properly edit things, but it makes me happy.
WIP (your current work in progress):
Oh, Heart of Steel, which I should be writing, only I'm reading back issues of Captain America (avoid volume four, except for near the end) and working on this.
Okay, so my recent voyage back into The Sentinel fandom has really reinforced for me what I like about Steve/Tony: They don't need each other. They are both heroes in their own right, with their own friends, allies and enemies. Yes, they're good friends, and they like each other, but they go for entire volumes in their own titles without seeing each other. Were one or the other to drop of the face of the earth, the survivor would be very sad, but ultimately survive (getting your other half killed being another matter).
I kind of think that they can't have a real relationship if one needs the other to survive. This is especially true of Steve, who is so self contained. So I've basically put them in a situation that cannot, as it now stands, provide a basis for a functional relationship. Then made them deal with it.
Also, I enjoy Woobie!Steve, so this is an excuse to do that a lot. I enjoy cracked alternate universes. I haven't posted a WIP since that 20,000 word The Lord of the Rings that took me three years to write, so this is fun. I'm certainly interested to see where it goes.
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Hah I like your insights on Steve Rogers
Date: 5 Jul 2009 09:54 (UTC)Yes, this. I do think that's what makes 616 Steve a lot more rounded than 1610 Steve. 616 Steve, if the super soldier serum thing didn't work out, he'd have gone on to do his art, his illustration and live, but 1610 Steve is like... so tied to his body and
jingoismpatriotism that if he ever stopped and caught a breath (like he did in the Utimates annual 2 with Ultimates Sam Wilson), he'd find his belief in his country irrevocably shattered.I think that my single greatest attraction to Steve is that he likes himself. He may angst about where he fits, and if he's doing enough, but not about who he is. Okay, there is tension between Steve as Steve and Steve as Cap sometimes, but on the whole, people want to be around Cap because he wants to be around himself. This allows him an incredible amount of range and freedom that a lot of other characters don't have. He doesn't have all this emotional energy invested in blame, and it's amazing. This doesn't mean that he's not self critical (though it does make him arrogant at times), but it means that he can run with his own strengths, that he's not blind to them.
Yes, this. Although at times I do think that Steve can be sanctimonious at times, he isn't a blow hard and he's always willing to take a step back, and adjust accordingly. It's taken me a long time to really understand 616 Steve, and I'm still not there, hence me having to ask other people about characterisation *waves to
There are times, when I want to give up the whole thing because the misogyny the racism, the homophobia are so bad that I think they might be making me a worse person for reading them. I do have turns like that at times. I honestly do. But then I keep on slugging and talking and hoping that well, someday someone will pause and do the right thing.
They don't need each other. They are both heroes in their own right, with their own friends, allies and enemies. Yes, they're good friends, and they like each other, but they go for entire volumes in their own titles without seeing each other. Were one or the other to drop of the face of the earth, the survivor would be very sad, but ultimately survive (getting your other half killed being another matter).
That's very true. Tony and Steve have that sort of friendship where you can just disappear for two years, and then when you drop back into each other's lives, you just click, and continue as if nothing had happened. It's very rare to see that portrayed so well in... well... any medium.
Your WIP is awesome, and I say this as someone who is well known for avoiding WIPs and Regencies, so well done. :D
(no subject)
Date: 5 Jul 2009 15:56 (UTC)I was thinking about that after your meta last month. I think the other big factor that, and I mean huge, is the Avengers. 616 Steve work up and fell into a world of functional people in teamy love, who took him in like a really shiny puppy. 1610 Steve not so much. But if you take 616 Steve and wake him up in a world ruled by Red Skull (see that three issue AU in vol 4), he's not as much with the well rounded, and more with the America first! Let's get those Nazi bastards!
Steve can be sanctimonious at times
Oh, yeah, he totally can be! The fact that he's right 90% of the time helps with the lecturing, but he's still a WASP man who thinks he knows what's best for everyone. He's also pretty good at checking his privileged when people ask him to though, which I'm fond of.
hoping that well, someday someone will pause and do the right thing.
I want Paul Cornell to rule Marvel. That would be awesome. Gail Simone can have DC.
It's very rare to see that portrayed so well in... well... any medium.
Yes. Yes it is. It seems like a common definition of "Friendship" (especially in fandom) is "A codependent train wreck that would make any relationship counsellor in the world want to cry."
Not pining to death when he or she is gone doesn't mean that you don't love someone.
Couples that aren't that: Gimli/Legolas (lotr), Jack/Stephen (Master and Commander), Delenn/Sheridan(Bablylon 5), Hercules/Iolaus (no REALLY), Elizabeth/Will (PotC), Spock/Uhura (NuTrek), Kirk/Spock (OldTrek), Remus/Sirius (Harry Potter), Ilias/Tremaine (Fall of Il-Rein), Angel/Buffy (um... sort of, post-show anyway, not at first), and ther people that I'll think of later.
Point!
Date: 5 Jul 2009 16:11 (UTC)Yeah, this. I know that my slasher's goggles is tight but 1610 Tony really tries to be friends with Steve. Gets him his old helmet, builds him the Black Panther costume so that he can
stalkJan, and is just generally generous towards Steve, you know? But that's Tony Stark in any universe, he's just a man who likes The Grand Gesture.Right, I have three Ultimates porn prompts to be going on with. WTF?
Yes. Yes it is. It seems like a common definition of "Friendship" (especially in fandom) is "A codependent train wreck that would make any relationship counsellor in the world want to cry."
Yeah, this. I do know that people tend to wonder why I tend to write Ultimates so prickly, but you don't have to be all carebear to be friends, you know?
Ah Remus/Sirus. My first OTP. They are the yardstick on which I measure my ships, and Steve and Tony are like 99 percent there.
Re: Hah I like your insights on Steve Rogers
Date: 6 Jul 2009 11:29 (UTC)Ults Care Bears? Steve can be Grumpy bear. It works. Thor can be Cheer Bear. Tony can be Love-A-Lot Bear. In fact, I think Simmy once did a drawing where Steve and Tony ended up in Care-A-Lot? It wasn't Ults, though. In conclusion, ha ha ha these are my insights.
(no subject)
Date: 5 Jul 2009 20:32 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 6 Jul 2009 05:28 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 5 Jul 2009 22:55 (UTC)Hmm... I need to ramble to my journal. 5 Words me?
(no subject)
Date: 6 Jul 2009 05:25 (UTC)Sherlock Holmes, Bekka Valentine, Modding, Blair Sandburg, English History.