muccamukk: Joe raising a glass and looking sardonic.Text: Sure, pal. Whatever you say. (HL: Whatever You Say)
[personal profile] muccamukk
So a couple years ago I did a post called Meme: Ten Fic That Stayed With You, in which I reviewed ten stories that had been influential on how I interacted with fandom and my own fic writing. Seven of the reviews were positive, two were negative, and one was mixed.

Later I noticed that a bunch of the reviews from that had been crossposted to Fanlore, even to the point that the only thing in the article was a link to the fic an my review. Witness: The World at Large. My mostly negative review of Written by the Victors made it over, even though my mixed-but-positive review of Monsters did not (?). I'm not sure what all this adds to fandom history, but a couple of the ones with lots of discussion are interesting reads I guess.

The one that maybe makes me side eye a bit is that no one crossposted my extremely negative review of a fic by Astolat. Like, golly gosh, I wonder why that might be.

Date: 2017-07-06 04:17 am (UTC)
sovay: (Morell: quizzical)
From: [personal profile] sovay
my extremely negative review of a fic by Astolat.

Yikes. (The story, not the review.)

It's not an ad hominem negative review, though. It strongly inclines me to stay away from the story, but does not depend on me agreeing that the author was a human trash fire to write it in the first place.
Edited Date: 2017-07-06 04:57 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-07-06 06:13 am (UTC)
sovay: (Morell: quizzical)
From: [personal profile] sovay
There were certainly 57 positive comments about the Astolat fic at the time, if one wanted balance.

I believe it was well-written and other readers enjoyed it. (I have enjoyed other fic by the same author.) I think I'm just okay skipping the plot-motivating gang rape!

Date: 2017-07-06 08:35 am (UTC)
navaan: (DC TTWonder Woman "Great Hera")
From: [personal profile] navaan
ater I noticed that a bunch of the reviews from that had been crossposted to Fanlore, even to the point that the only thing in the article was a link to the fic an my review.

O.o I guess everything in open posts is fair game, but when your review is the only one that gets cited on the page it feels strange. Like, someone came across your post and made the story entries to keep your review somewhere, instead of starting the other way around. (And than it's even stranger that some got left out, huh.)

The one that maybe makes me side eye a bit is that no one crossposted my extremely negative review of a fic by Astolat. Like, golly gosh, I wonder why that might be.

Wondering why, yeah... ^^; No bias involved at all.

I have my own issues with Astolat's fic in pretty much all the fandoms I shared with her over time, and I only read a bit in the Age of Sail and mostly from writers I already knew, but WOW that fic sounds terrible in the extreme.

Date: 2017-07-12 11:12 am (UTC)
navaan: (London)
From: [personal profile] navaan
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happened, but like if they wanted to do that, why not find the original story and copy some contemporary chatter. The pages that have lots of reviews are quite interesting, especially mixed reviews.

I think the general problem there is that they don't have that many people who are that active, but like a handful of people who start these pages and intend to (and sometimes even come back to) and just want to have the info stored somewhere first when they find it. It's a bit strange to me, because that makes fanlore look like this very strange wiki with half started mostly empty pages and some pages that are super outdated etc. I know how this happens, but personally I'm not sure this is the best way of going about a fandom history project. :P

I personally don't think Astolat went and deleted or anything like that (or maybe she did, who knows?), but she's sort of THERE on the project, which may make one hesitate.

I personally don't think she would, honestly. I'm not sure how involved she is currently either. But I presume many of the active gardeners are people who know her/know of her, so I can see why there would be some (maybe unrealized) bias involved.

I think I always liked her prose and the crafting of her plots, but in most fandoms we shared I fundamentally disagreed with her on characterization. And that's about the extend of what I remember of the fic. XP I mostly enjoyed her novels.

Date: 2017-07-06 08:40 am (UTC)
sparowe: (WT-?!)
From: [personal profile] sparowe
I remember the author's name, but somehow missed that one at the time. I was in a pretty dark place at that point, and I did some terrible things in writing while dealing with my demons, and I'm still glad I missed that one....

Date: 2017-07-07 01:17 pm (UTC)
sparowe: (Content)
From: [personal profile] sparowe
Whenever I think I haven't made it very far in terms of who I want to be... I do have the past to remind me that I'm doing better than I think I am.

Date: 2017-07-06 02:37 pm (UTC)
marthawells: (Default)
From: [personal profile] marthawells
I've noticed things on fanlore where it looks like someone literally sits there and reads a fan's journal and then creates a different entry for everything said about fandom, instead of say, making an entry for a topic and then searching for a selection of different opinions about it. It's like preserving history or stalking, you choose!

Someone on fanlore basically took a bunch of the non-fiction articles and opinion-posts off one of my old 90s fanfic archives and reposted the complete text to fanlore as individual entries, with no explanation as to why they couldn't just include a link, or why it was there or what the relevance of it was anyway. Last time I looked, someone else had gone through and changed a few of them to quotes with links, instead of just poaches of the entire article. I didn't bother to complain, since the last time I tried to complain to fanlore about doxxing my real name, I got accidentally copied on a post to a mailing list ridiculing me, so. I think fanlore was originally a great idea, but like a lot of crowd-sourced things in fandom, it's been used by people for things that aren't part of the original purpose.

Date: 2017-07-06 04:35 pm (UTC)
marthawells: (Default)
From: [personal profile] marthawells
It's like someone thinks "preserving fandom history" means making a duplicate copy of everything every fan said about fandom, but in such a way it looks completely random.

Yeah, it was just weird.

And I meant to say, I feel the same way about the casual misogyny in fandom back then. It's so strange now to think how I accepted it as normal, how so many of us accepted it as normal.

Date: 2017-07-06 08:52 pm (UTC)
dhampyresa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dhampyresa
The one that maybe makes me side eye a bit is that no one crossposted my extremely negative review of a fic by Astolat. Like, golly gosh, I wonder why that might be.

Truly, a mystery for the ages.

Date: 2017-07-07 01:34 am (UTC)
nonniemous: (wut sophie)
From: [personal profile] nonniemous
I wonder how much the casual misogyny in fandom has to do with growing up in a world generally without strong women characters in so many of our stories? In so many, women are superfluous. (Surely someone, somewhere, has written a thesis about this--or is writing one?) Also, romance tropes. So much fanfiction seems to me to just be romance novels with more penii per couple than (most of) those you can buy at the bookstore.

Though, given my current favorite fandom, genderbends are some of my favorite stories.

In reference to the gang rape, as someone who's written a story where a gangrape that preceded story events basically drove many of the character moments in that story, you've reminded me that, no matter our reasons for writing something, readers always bring their own perspective to the table. I'd like to protest that mine was intended to an exploration of culture--and, also, tastefully handled--but I still brutalized a character for no reason and broke canon for many others (though it was an early canon trope that was ret-conned out by the original author.) I know my reasons; and those who commented on the story positively knew their reasons, but if someone didn't read the copious author's notes (or even if they did) would have been justified to write the same sort of review, I think--and your review is completely valid. We get lost in our own perspective so often, and forget that reader POV.

Then again, I've hit more than a few stories where my gut reaction was "Oh, HELL NO!" and I backed out and ran away, never to return. There's a level of gratuitous brutality in some fics that leaves me wondering if the author really understands just how difficult it is to recover from what they've so casually inflicted on their characters?

Uhm...okay, sorry. Wandered a bit away from the original point of the post and my reply. But, interesting things to think about now!

Date: 2017-07-07 02:45 am (UTC)
nonniemous: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nonniemous
But, but, gushing reviews are the REEEEEASON for fandom! And Fanfic!!! Don'chano? *snickers*
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